Smack: Final thoughts on Edwards vs. Keselowski (NASCAR.com)
March 11, 2010
1. Carl Edwards got three races of probation for his retaliatory hit on Brad Keselowski on Sunday. Did he deserve more?Joe Menzer: Yes. There are logical reasons—well, logical for NASCAR—why he wasn’t suspended. But I believe Keselowski was correct in stating after the race that Carl should have received at least a one-race suspension. I wrote that in a post-race column and still feel that way.Mark Aumann: This was a litmus test of where NASCAR sees itself and where it wants to be in the realm of big-time sports, and whether its “have at it, boys” mandate was hypocritical. So I’m not surprised. I am disappointed, though.
Joe Menzer: Here is why he deserved to be suspended: you shouldn’t be allowed to get away with deliberately wrecking someone on a straightaway when speeds are approaching 190 mph—and what made it worse was that he was 150-some laps down. It was foolish and far too dangerous.
Mark Aumann: Maybe NASCAR doesn’t think so, but I think it really opens up a Pandora’s Box. Who’s to say an owner doesn’t hire a start-and-parker to intentionally wreck the points leader at a critical juncture? Whether or not Brad deserved it, it was just a foolhardy thing to do under the circumstances, and NASCAR missed an opportunity to prove that point.
David Caraviello: They’re clearly backed into a corner here. As I wrote in my Wednesday column, guys have taken each other out for years either to win races or get revenge, and in almost every case NASCAR has let it go with no serious long-term penalties. And yet, they clearly look bad here, because of how many laps down Carl was, and how Brad’s car flipped through the air. Non-racing sports writers and talk radio hosts are coming down on them very, very hard, almost universally so.
Joe Menzer: The severity of the wreck clearly made this an emotional, hotly-debated topic. I have never seen fans this riled up on an issue that didn’t involve Dale Jr. or Danica Patrick in the three-plus years I’ve been working here. Not even when Carl’s own car almost went into the grandstands at Talladega last spring, I don’t think.
Mark Aumann: And I hear all this “well, Dale used to do it all the time” stuff. But I can’t find an instance anywhere in his career where Earnhardt was multiple laps down and intentionally wrecked a car in the top 10. Sorry, that boat doesn’t float. In fact, back in the “good old days,” guys were cognizant of how seriously you could get hurt in a wreck. I think a lot of the aggressive driving stems from the fact that some of these guys think they’re bulletproof now.
David Caraviello: Mark, I agree. But the bottom line is, Dale didn’t get penalized when he took people out. Neither did Brad or Denny Hamlin last year, or Tony Stewart or Juan Montoya last year. There are a million similar incidents, and no penalties. That’s what they’re standing by. That’s the reality, which leads me to put the onus more on Carl than on NASCAR. NASCAR has always let this kind of stuff go. Drivers are usually more judicious in how they do it.
Joe Menzer: I still think Carl should have just waited until Bristol, where he could have exacted some sort of revenge at a much slower, safer speed. Carl’s contention that he might have “collected other cars” there is true, but that doesn’t float, either, because he certainly affected other cars with his actions Sunday—which brought out the caution and caused the double G-W-C finish.
David Caraviello: Wait until whenever—Bristol, Martinsville, a month from now. Wait until the time and situation are right, and then do it. Then you’re a folk hero, and not someone who made a rash, poorly-executed decision.
Joe Menzer: I like Carl, but what he did was stupid and foolish. It was just flat-out wrong—and way too dangerous. I know he didn’t intend for Brad K. to go airborne, but when you wreck someone at those speeds going down a straightaway, you can’t control and don’t know what is going to happen.
Mark Aumann: Yeah, Carl comes off as the bully here, whether that’s deserved or not. And will this incident cause him to gain or lose respect from other drivers? That remains to be seen. There were very mixed reviews about the incident Sunday and then NASCAR’s decision on Tuesday.
Joe Menzer: Whether it’s deserved or not? Um, it’s deserved. No matter what you think of Brash Brad—and obviously he has A LOT to learn about the give-and-take of Cup racing—Carl played the role of bully to the hilt Sunday and, frankly, deserves the heat he is taking. But I do think he’ll learn from it and be smarter about controlling his emotions from here on out.
David Caraviello: No question. But there are also a lot of people—judging from the comments on Carl’s Facebook statements—who unfortunately think this is some righteous old-school throwback. No it’s not. Guys like the Intimidator were smarter than this. This was an embarrassing situation all the way around.
Joe Menzer: Well, we’ve explained why he deserved more than the three-race probation slap on the wrist he received. But here’s why expecting a suspension for one race was never going to happen: Edwards runs a fully-funded car with a big-time sponsor who would not have been happy about sitting out even one race.
Mark Aumann: And don’t forget the Chase implications. But my biggest concern—and NASCAR’s, too—is the way the roof deformed after the hit with the SAFER barrier. I held my breath until I heard Brad on the radio. That, and the Ryan Newman incident at Talladega, have to be keeping the R&D guys up at night. The roll cage integrity is imperative.
David Caraviello: As is the airborne problem. Those are the real issues coming out of this.
2. Keselowski has made all sorts of enemies the past two years. Does NASCAR need to sit down with him and tell him to tone down his driving style?
Joe Menzer: I’m sure NASCAR already has done that, probably more than once. I’m sure they talked to him about it when he got into that spat with Denny Hamlin last year and they have said they plan to sit down and talk with both drivers about this latest incident.
Mark Aumann: If they’re going to let his detractors stick him in the wall without penalty, I can’t see where telling him anything is going to make a difference.
David Caraviello: Evidently so, given the number of guys who think Brad is a pest. But I’ll be honest—there’s a lot of nuance involved in NASCAR racing, and it’s often hard to find obvious fault in some of these situations. Like the one that allegedly angered Carl early in Sunday’s race. I kept looking at the replay and thought—how do you blame Brad for that? But I’m also not in the driver’s seat, where I’m sure things look very different.
David Caraviello: Did he deserve more? Probably. Was he going to get more? Doubtful. The truth is, NASCAR has let this kind of thing go on for years. A suspension would have been a stark departure from one of the few precedents NASCAR holds fast to. Anyone hoping for a suspension was fooling themselves.Mark Aumann: I think in some ways, he gets more blame than he deserves because he’s been a loose cannon at times. The first incident on Sunday wasn’t all Brad’s fault. And it’s a matter of “well, Keselowski was nearby, so he must have wrecked me.” Denny Hamlin did a good job of wrecking himself at Fontana last fall without Brad’s help.Joe Menzer: Well, here’s the thing: lots of times with a young guy like Brad, veteran drivers want to blame him for “being overaggressive” when they’re fighting for the same ground, especially early in a race. Well, if they’re both fighting for the same ground, aren’t they both “being overaggressive?”
Mark Aumann: Part of being a racer is taking more than you’re giving. Obviously, in the course of 500 miles, there’s a time and a place for that. But there isn’t a driver out there who’s going to be “Mr. Nice Guy” every lap. And with this car, you have to make up all the positions you can on a restart.
Joe Menzer: Bottom line with these two is that they would have been better off staying as far away from each other as they could that early in the race. Give each other room and worry about getting by a little later. But man, it’s racin’ and they were racing each other for position. So I don’t know how you can tell them to act any other way, really.
David Caraviello: Mark, I will agree that he has become something of a convenient target. But I also wonder if he’s getting a reputation that’s not altogether deserved. As Joe mentioned, there are a lot of aggressive guys out there. Montoya and Stewart, two of the best drivers in the garage area, have gone through periods where they’ve angered a lot of other competitors with their driving. It happens.
Mark Aumann: And his two biggest detractors—Edwards and Hamlin—aren’t averse to mixing it up, either. Let’s not paint them as choir boys in this.
David Caraviello: Did he deserve more? Probably. Was he going to get more? Doubtful. The truth is, NASCAR has let this kind of thing go on for years. A suspension would have been a stark departure from one of the few precedents NASCAR holds fast to. Anyone hoping for a suspension was fooling themselves.Joe Menzer: Yep. That’s exactly right. And the guys with his type of attitude usually go on to rough out some of the smooth edges and be some of the most successful drivers out there. I do seem to recall one Dale Earnhardt (the father, not the son) ruffling more than a few feathers along the way, and especially early in his career.David Caraviello: Here’s the thing—Brad in no way, shape or form purports to be a choir boy. He’s an instigator, he knows it, he relishes it. There’s nothing fake about him. And you know what? I like that about him. I like that he wants people to be worried when he sees him behind them. Can he cross the line sometimes? Yes. But so can anybody.
Joe Menzer: It’s easier to rough out the smooth edges and tone down the aggressiveness than it is to try to mold a driver who is too conservative into more of an animal.
Mark Aumann: Perhaps unlike at any other time in the sport’s history, owners are demanding instant success from inexperienced drivers. That puts a lot of pressure on guys to drive over their heads. There’s just not the chance to mature. And you only get one shot at this.
Joe Menzer: We also left Kyle Busch out of this conversation. He charges hard, too, and has been known to tick people off. But you know, when I really think about this, it’s just another reason to sit back and realize how good the four-time champ really is. Jimmie Johnson does it—usually, but not always—without knocking anyone out of the way, deliberately or accidentally.
3. Scott Speed posted his first top-10 on a non-plate track at Atlanta, and moved up to 11th in points. Is the Red Bull driver a threat to make the Chase?
David Caraviello: Whoa, we’re actually going to Smack about something other than guys wrecking each other? I don’t know if I can handle this. Does not compute … does not compute … does not compute …
Joe Menzer: Well, any conversation that includes Scott Speed being in the top 12 also must include the other huge surprise that is going to be in the media interview rotation at Bristol. And that’s Paul Menard! Having said that, neither Speed nor Menard will be close to sniffing the Chase come Richmond.
Mark Aumann: Tell you what, I’m really interested in the little subplot of A.J. Allmendinger vs. Scott Speed. Remember, Speed took Allmendinger’s seat. And they’re both at about the same point in their stock-car careers. That could be fun to watch. If anything, A.J. took that huge leap in understanding in 2009, and it seems to be paying off. It’ll be interesting to see if Speed does the same this season.
David Caraviello: Joe, now, let’s not make such sweeping assumptions. Anybody who saw Scott win that truck race at Dover a few years back knows the kid can drive. He’s in his second year in Cup, and the Montoya formula tells us that the third season is the one where it all begins to click for an ex-open-wheeler. So maybe he really is starting to pick this up to the point where he can produce better finishes. He has so far this year, at least.
Joe Menzer: OK, well, then talk to me next year—when Speed is in his third year. He likely will make gains this year, but for goodness sakes, he’s not going to sniff the Chase this season any more than Paul Menard is going to. I’ll bet Allmendinger finishes ahead of both of them in points. And don’t you know by now that I’m all about making “sweeping assumptions?”
David Caraviello: They don’t call him “Knee-jerk Joe” for nothing.
Mark Aumann: Joe Menzer: Standing broom only. But I agree with Joe. I don’t think either one makes the playoffs. But both have shown improvement so far. Whether they can carry momentum the entire 26 races is another story.
David Caraviello: Boy, you guys are really high on the Richard Petty Motorsports teammates today, aren’t you? I’m not saying Paul and A.J. can’t break through. A.J. especially shows all the right signs. But that Red Bull organization, for being under the radar a bit, makes rather good decisions and has gradually been moving in the right direction.
Joe Menzer: Well, Dr. Caraviello, you have to admit that RPM had a banner day at Atlanta. I’ve actually said previously that I thought they would struggle this year—too much change, too much going on—but to have three finishers in the top six at a mile-and-a-half track could mean something going forward.
David Caraviello: Yes, Joe, they did. A lot of us thought RPM would collapse into a chaotic mess given the tumult of last season, and I’m sure they’d love nothing more than to prove us wrong. Kasey Kahne, as usual, continues to be able to wheel it anywhere. And the other guys all show flashes. Maybe they’ll be all right after all.
Mark Aumann: And by the way, Brad Keselowski’s wreck looked like a Hot Wheels car on a 13-inch TV.
Joe Menzer: You still have that thing? Dang, I just bought an 18-inch flat screen for my garage—for my THIRD TV in the Man Cave! Aumann, I’m going to stop calling you Rain Man and start calling you El Cheapo!
Mark Aumann: Hey, I did my part to help the local economy in Las Vegas. I lost $5 in the poker slots.
Joe Menzer: Think about this: the video screen they watched you lose on from the Eye in the Sky had a bigger monitor than your sorry TV at the cabin!
David Caraviello: Did he deserve more? Probably. Was he going to get more? Doubtful. The truth is, NASCAR has let this kind of thing go on for years. A suspension would have been a stark departure from one of the few precedents NASCAR holds fast to. Anyone hoping for a suspension was fooling themselves.Mark Aumann: Oh, now you’re just being petty.Joe Menzer: I thought we were done talking about Petty.
David Caraviello: Am I going to have to be the adult to yank you two Brad Keselowskis back on topic? It also can’t hurt Speed that teammate Brian Vickers made the Chase last year. Clearly, the cars at Red Bull have gotten better and better. Deep down, I don’t think Scott will make the Chase this year, either. But a top-15 points finish would be a breakthrough. And a nice springboard to perhaps better things in 2011.
Mark Aumann: A good season for both Menard and Speed would be to finish in the top 20 in points and carry momentum into 2011. Anything more than that is gravy.
Joe Menzer: I’ll give you that. I might also give Aumann one of my old TVs. That would be a springboard to a better life for him.
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writers.
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